Senior Tory’s howler as he’s asked about deporting migrants from African warzones

By Iwan Stone and Meg Byrom

21:54 25 Apr 2024, updated 01:51 26 Apr 2024

A Conservative minister has been mocked after an embarrassing gaffe on Question time – where he asked a despairing audience member if Rwanda and Congo are different countries.

Policing minister Chris Philp shocked the audience – who gasped and laughed as he repeatedly blundered in front of the camera.

And in a stark moment of disbelief the camera panned to fellow panellist and Shadow Secretary for Health and Social Care Wes Streeting, who responded by giving Mr Philp a wide-eyed, bewildered stare.

In response to a question about the Government’s Rwanda deportation scheme, the Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire asked ‘well Rwanda is a different country from Congo isn’t it?’.

The audience member asked whether refugees and asylum seekers from Congo, a neighbouring country, would be sent to Rwanda due to ongoing conflicts between the two nations.

Were YOU the man who asked the question or were you in the audience? Email [email protected] 

What is going on between Rwanda and Congo? 

Hundreds of thousands have been forced to flee their homes because of violent clashes between Democratic Republic of Congo and M23 rebels in eastern Congo.

The DRC’s mineral-rich Great Lakes region has been wracked by violence since regional wars in the 1990s, with tensions resurging in late 2021 when rebels from the March 23 Movement (M23) began recapturing swathes of territory. 

The DRC, the United Nations and Western countries accuse Rwanda of supporting rebel groups, including M23, in a bid to control the region’s vast mineral resources, an allegation the African nation denies. 

M23 rebels currently control large swathes of North Kivu and are encircling the provincial capital of Goma, where more than one million displaced by the war have crammed into desperate camps.

The UN said in 2023 that people living in eastern DRC faced unheard-of violence, naming it one of the ‘worst places’ in the world for children.

Rwanda has been accused of supplying violent rebel groups in Congo with weapons and soldiers, which the Rwandan government has denied.  

In tonight’s episode of the BBC Politics show, which was broadcast live from Tottenham, the audience member said: ‘I come from a neighbouring country called Congo, if you know geographically that it is located right next door to Rwanda.

‘And right now in Goma there’s a genocide going on and there’s such a big conflict going on with people from Rwanda.

‘So had my family members come from Goma on a crossing right now would they be sent back to the country that they’re supposedly warring, Rwanda? Does that make sense to you?’

Mr Philp responded: ‘I think there’s an exclusion on people from Rwanda being sent to Rwanda.’

The audience member and Question Time host Fiona Bruce interrupted the Minister, saying: ‘They’re not from Rwanda, they’re from Congo. And they’re supposedly warring these people from Rwanda. 

‘Are they then going to be sent to Rwanda if they came here on a crossing?’

A blustering Mr Philp replied: ‘From Congo?’

And the audience member added: ‘From Congo, yeah.’

And to a backdrop of the audience shaking their heads, dramatically rolling their eyes and laughing, Mr Philp said: ‘Would people be sent from… well… Rwanda is a different country from Congo isn’t it. Rwanda is a different…’

He later clarified: ‘So there is a clause in the legislation that says if somebody would suffer – I think the phrase is ‘serious and irreversable harm’ by being sent somewhere they wouldn’t be sent so there is that safety mechanism built into the legislation.’ 

READ MORE: What is the Rwanda scheme? Your questions answered

Responding to the clip, Liberal Democrat MP Sarah Olney shared the video on X and commented that ‘this is not a serious government.’

Mr Philp has previously drawn howls of laughter on Question Time from audiences reacting to his blundering responses.

When he again appeared alongside Wes Streeting in June 2022, he answered a question on social housing to the bewilderment of Ms Bruce.

As he tried to explain his thoughts on the Right to Buy scheme, the Labour MP was seen dramatically shaking his head as the host asked the audience: ‘Am I missing something?’

Responding to her question, they were left laughing and shaking their heads as they shouted back ‘no!’

Finishing his answer with ‘if you think about it it does make sense’ Ms Bruce again turned to the audience, saying: ‘I’m not sure, Chris. I’m not sure you’re convincing the audience here.’ 

Mr Philp was appointed to become Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire in October 2022, after holding roles as Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office, Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in the same year.

Between 2020 and 2021 he was Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Home Office and Ministry of Justice, and before that held positions as Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Ministry of Justice and Minister for London at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government.

Were YOU the man who asked the question or were you in the audience? Email [email protected]