One of the audience member’s questions on Thursday night asked what the point in being part of the Union actually is.
BBC NI’s Tara Mills came to the Alliance Party leader first about the issue, as she referenced the fact that Alliance often ‘sit on the fence’ when it comes to this topic.
The East Belfast Westminster candidate refuted this, stating: “We don’t sit on the fence. We have a strong position. We are in favour of a united community in Northern Ireland. That is our priority policy.
“We cannot have a united Ireland or a United Kingdom while this place remains divided.
“We are open to those conversations – we are about trying to look at the practicalities.
“Why would we go and have a border poll now when there is no strong proposition? We tried that with Brexit and it was a disaster.”
“Green and orange, border poll or no border polls, will not sort the problems that are keeping people awake at night.
“People are not wakening up in the middle of night in a lather of sweat worrying bout the border, but they are worried about are they going to be able to pay their bills, will they get their children in a good school, are they able to get an appointment with their doctor?”
SDLP leader Colum Eastwood then stepped in to argue his party’s reasonings for a united Ireland, but stressed that they are “working hard on a proposition” and that they aren’t calling for a border poll just yet.
“We’re not calling for a border poll right now… let’s face it, this place is an economic basket case.”
He said that the Republic of Ireland currently has “billions of pounds worth of surplus” and “we now have a shared island fund that is worth over a billions euros”.
The Foyle candidate added that ‘it’s easier to get money out of Dublin than it is at Stormont’.
Other questions throughout the programme focused on health budget cuts, whether the conflict in Palestine and Israel has caused further divisive politics here, and whether the politicians present genuinely thought their parties could regain the public’s trust – and how.
Speaking of politicians present, while it’s branded as a leaders’ debate, only the DUP, Alliance Party and the SDLP were represented by their respective leaders Gavin Robinson, Naomi Long and Colum Eastwood.
Sinn Fein was represented in Michelle O’Neill’s stead by South Down candidate Chris Hazzard, and the UUP by deputy leader and Lagan Valley candidate Robbie Butler as opposed to leader Doug Beattie.
When discussing how parties justify voting to cut the health service, Mr Robinson had a heated exchange with presenter Tara Mills about the statistic itself.
He said: “We’re not cutting £184m – because that’s the end-of-year figure [from last year, rather than the start].
“I was representing the people of Northern Ireland at Westminster and that meant that the NI Executive, when it was restored, had £950m to allocate across the departments
“Since then, there’s been an allocation of £450m to the Department of Health – out of that £950m – almost 50%.”
Ms Long appeared to take the question to focus it on her own ministerial department and her concerns around its funding – or lack thereof.
She said that “over recent years the Department of Health has seen a 70% increase… The Department of Justice has seen around a 3% increase.
“Health is not the Department of Heath – all of us contribute to health and wellbeing in our community and therefore we have to fund all departments fairly.”
Here’s how the debate unfolded on our live blog:
Closing statements
Robbie Butler has paraphrased his party’s North Down candidate, Tim Collins, who – after the Hamas attack on October 7 happened – “did say that Israel should not attack in the manner that some people thought they would, because if we’re going to learn the lesson from where we’ve been in Northern Ireland, there has to be dialogue and a solution”.
Sinn Fein’s Chris Hazzard stepped in to say: “Robbie, there has to be an end to the occupation apartheid, an end to the ethic cleansing, that has to be a red line.
Naomi also said that “of course there has to be a two-state solution”.
Amidst talking over each other, Tara Mills gave the last word to Colum Eastwood.
“While people are squabbling here, there are children dying right now, there are people starving right now.
“That place was an open air prison when I was there 12 years ago. Can you imagine what it’s like right now?
“Israeli government ministers have said openly that they want to wipe those people off that land – that is nothing else but a genocide and the world needs to stop it.”
When asked if he will visit the White House next year if President Biden is re-elected and the Israel-Gaza conflict is ongoing, Sinn Féin’s Chris Hazzard says his party “will continue to go wherever we need to go to be the voice of the Palestinian people where their voice needs to be heard”.
Palestine and Israel
Danny from Armagh asks the fourth question.
“Has taking sides in the conflict in the Middle East become another divisive form of identity politics or do u feel it aligns with national interests?”
‘Do I agree? I started this’
When asked if he accepts that Northern Ireland has been chronically underfunded by the British government, Gavin Robinson replied:
“Do I accept it?
“I started this conversation.
“I led this campaign in Westminster and when I did that, others were saying I was taking away from other political issues [this quote was met with refutes from the rest of the leaders].
“But let’s be clear. We benefit from being part of the fifth largest economy in the world.”
Mr Robinson proceeded to highlight the positives of things such as the NHS and Levelling Up funding, saying:
“We’re very good at talking some things down…”To which Colum Eastwood interrupted:
“We might talk things down, but you pull things down here.”
The SDLP leader’s retort was met with applause from the audience.
‘Northern Ireland is an economic basket case’
SDLP Leader Colum Eastwood has argued his party’s reasonings for a united Ireland, but stressed that they are “working hard on a proposition” and that they aren’t calling for a border poll just yet.
“We’re not calling for a border poll right now… let’s face it, this place is an economic basket case.
He said that the Republic of Ireland currently has “billions of pounds worth of surplus” and “we now have a shared island fund that is worth over a billions euros”.
‘It’s easier to get money out of Dublin than it is at Stormont.’
‘People aren’t wakening up in the middle of the night in a lather of sweat over the border’
Naomi Long gives the quote of the night that possibly has the most Northern Irish colloquial tinge.
“Green and orange, border poll or no border polls, will not sort the problems that are keeping people awake at night.
“People are not wakening up in the middle of night in a lather of sweat worrying bout the border, but they are worried about, arey the going to be able to pay their bills, will they get their children in a good school, are they able to get an appointment with their doctor?”
What is the point in being part of the Union?
Naomi Long again defends her and her party’s stance on the constitutional question.
“We don’t sit on the fence. We have a strong position. We are in favour of a united community in Northern Ireland. That is our priority policy.
“We cannot have a united Ireland or a United Kingdom while this place remains dividied.
“We are open to those conversations – we are about trying to look at the practicalities.
“Why would we go and have a border poll now when there is no strong proposition? We tried that with Brexit and it was a disaster.”
How can you regain the trust of the public?
Naomi Long says: “The collapse of the Assembly has damaged our public services.”
She adds that “it has damaged public confidence, because people now know our Stormont as it stands today is no more stable than the day before it collapsed the last time”.
Robbie Butler raises issue of abstentionism
After a bit of a telling-off from Tara Mills, Robbie Butler has brought the issue of abstentionism up in response to her pushing him about what the UUP’s plan is for the health service.
Mr Butler did stress that “health is the number one issue on the doorsteps – whether at council elections, Assembly elections, or Westminster”.
He disagreed with Naomi Long’s earlier point, stating that she “kind of contradicted herself” by saying that the health plan was a matter for the Health Minister, but then saying “it was everybody’s”.
Ms Long denied this and said that bringing forward a transformative plan “is a matter for the Health Minister”.
Mr Butler added that for five years of the last seven years, Northern Ireland has experienced abstentionism.
“We didn’t take our players off the pitch.
“Our plan [for health] is to have ministerial leadership, to work with Executive partners to agree a budget”.
He also noted that the current budget “doesn’t take into account this year’s pay rise for hard working staff.”
He added that “the Agenda for Change may not be met” due to the department’s finances.
Tara Mills tries to bring political leaders back to the matter at hand – health
BBC NI presenter felt forced to steer the conversation back on track after chastising all of the leaders she has spoken to so far, for ‘spouting statistics that the audience don’t want to hear’.
“People don’t want to hear those figures, they want to know when they’re getting their operations, when they’re having their hospital appointments; they’re dying in emergency departments waiting to be seen.”
‘Health is not the Department of Health’
Alliance Party leader Naomi Long appears to have taken the Health budget cut question to focus it on her own department and her concerns around its funding – or lack thereof.
She said:
“If you take the start-of-year position this year, the start-of-year position last year, if you go back and look at what’s happened to funding in the Executive over recent years the Department of Health has seen a 70% increase, the Department of Education has seen more than 40% increase. The Department of Justice has seen around a 3% increase.
“Health is not the Department of Heath – all of us contribute to health and wellbeing in our community and therefore we have to fund all departments fairly.”
How do parties justify voting to cut the Health Service?
When asked by an audience member how NI parties justify cutting the health budget by £184m, DUP Leader Gavin Robinson had a heated exchange with presenter Tara Mills about the statistic itself.
He said:
“We’re not cutting £184m – because that’s the end-of-year figure [from last year, rather than the start].
“I was representing the people of Northern Ireland at Westminster and that meant that the NI Executive, when it was restored, had £950m to allocate across the departments
“Since then, there’s been an allocation of £450m to the Department of Health – out of that £950m – almost 50%.
“If we didn’t have an allocation towards the Department of Health, the Department of Education; how many police officers were going to be made redundant, how many prisoners were going to be released? How many SEN children were going to be left without provisions?”
Who’s on the BBC debate tonight?
While Sunday’s debate was branded as an election debate, tonight’s was due to a ‘Leaders’ Debate’.
Once again, Sinn Fein, the DUP, Alliance Party, UUP and SDLP are taking part, although only three of the five will be represented by their party leaders.
Those will be Gavin Robinson (DUP), Naomi Long (AP) and Colum Eastwood (SDLP).
Sinn Fein will be represented by South Down candidate Chris Hazzard, in Michelle O’Neill’s stead, while the UUP are sending Lagan Valley candidate Robbie Butler rather than leader Doug Beattie.
It means it will be the same line-up as Sunday’s UTV debate with the exception of Mr Hazzard. Sinn Fein were represented at the weekend by North Belfast candidate John Finucane.
What happened in the UTV election debate?
Tonight’s is the second Northern Ireland TV debate In the lead up to next Thursday’s UK General Election.
Representatives from five of the major parties were in the UTV studios on Sunday. Here’s how Suzanne Breen rated their performances…
Election Daily: Kurtis Reid talks about how the main political parties are using TikTok to further their campaigns.
